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  #11  
Old 03-30-2007, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by svopaul View Post
I agree it's functional but it needs to be kept clear that it's not exactly "correct" or then you end up with people changing history and then someone on Ebay sells one as NOS and takes someone for big $$$ while another at a show claims it's original and takes an award from someone else.

Great for function but painting it still doesn't make it "correct".
I never said it was "correct", I said it was a functional replacement, and no one here is changing any history. The "correct", NOS one that was just sold on Ebay doesn't have any part numbers or markings on it, and neither do either of the "correct", OE ones I have here on my cars. So...it would probably be pretty hard to tell the difference if done correctly, and it's a great alternative (under $50) for those that need them for their cars (especially the FHP cars, since just about every FHP car made came with one).
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  #12  
Old 03-30-2007, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by NoDrama43 View Post
but most importantly......the judges at MCA shows do not have a clue when it comes to these SSP cars and the "correct concours" equipment. Sign me up for a couple of them if you get them Mike...
Will do.....just waiting on the other one I ordered to come in so I can verify the P/N.
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  #13  
Old 03-30-2007, 04:21 PM
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I'll take one too.
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  #14  
Old 03-30-2007, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ImEvil1 View Post
I never said it was "correct", I said it was a functional replacement, and no one here is changing any history. The "correct", NOS one that was just sold on Ebay doesn't have any part numbers or markings on it, and neither do either of the "correct", OE ones I have here on my cars. So...it would probably be pretty hard to tell the difference if done correctly, and it's a great alternative (under $50) for those that need them for their cars (especially the FHP cars, since just about every FHP car made came with one).

I know that....didn't say you didn't. My point is that things like this can quickly turn into being claimed as NOS. I also didn't say anyone here was changing history...this sort of thing happens over time as information is spread from person to person....10 people down the line it's NOS for that car and goes from there. What you've got is a crown vic cable and they do work for function and all and if you are not into shows or making the car "correct" but just functional then it's great. the one that was just sold on Ebay did in fact have a Ford part number tag on it as I inquired about it but decided not to bid when I saw a familiar name on the bid list.

But to say "it would probably be pretty hard to tell the difference if done right" isn't doing any favors to the hobby for those into concours...it's just not ethical in my opinion but that may just be me.
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  #15  
Old 03-30-2007, 04:48 PM
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I know that....didn't say you didn't. My point is that things like this can quickly turn into being claimed as NOS. I also didn't say anyone here was changing history...this sort of thing happens over time as information is spread from person to person....10 people down the line it's NOS for that car and goes from there. What you've got is a crown vic cable and they do work for function and all and if you are not into shows or making the car "correct" but just functional then it's great. the one that was just sold on Ebay did in fact have a Ford part number tag on it as I inquired about it but decided not to bid when I saw a familiar name on the bid list.

But to say "it would probably be pretty hard to tell the difference if done right" isn't doing any favors to the hobby for those into concours...it's just not ethical in my opinion but that may just be me.
No one here is quickly claiming anything as NOS. What happens on Ebay is sad sometimes, but it's not this site or its' members that are the ones doing that type of thing.

It's not a Crown Vic cable...it actually decodes for a Fairmont. The cable that Nodrama just bought doesn't have a ford part number tag on it.

There isn't any concours judging for restored police cars.....and painting a cable to make it look correct is unethical? If that's the case, I guess a whole lot of people are in trouble.

There's nothing wrong with making something work, when the original part is long obsolete. Now...listing this on Ebay and calling it an "NOS OE VASCAR Mustang cable"...I agree, would be unethical. I don't see anyone here doing that, though.
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  #16  
Old 03-30-2007, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ImEvil1 View Post
No one here is quickly claiming anything as NOS. What happens on Ebay is sad sometimes, but it's not this site or its' members that are the ones doing that type of thing.

It's not a Crown Vic cable...it actually decodes for a Fairmont. The cable that Nodrama just bought doesn't have a ford part number tag on it.

There isn't any concours judging for restored police cars.....and painting a cable to make it look correct is unethical? If that's the case, I guess a whole lot of people are in trouble.

There's nothing wrong with making something work, when the original part is long obsolete. Now...listing this on Ebay and calling it an "NOS OE VASCAR Mustang cable"...I agree, would be unethical. I don't see anyone here doing that, though.

Mike, you are missing my point entirely....I didn't say that you or anyone else claimed it is NOS.....just that unless it is documented then as time passes people forget what original was other than a few that keep up with it and the next thing you know 5 years from now there is an arguement between two people...one claiming that grey is correct and the other claiming black is correct. And it is not this site or anyone here that is doing that sort of thing but it is this site's and everyones duty to keep information clear so that the facts aren't lost in the future.

Fairmont and Mustang share a lot and have a lot of similarities but there is also a CV cable that "works" but they are also hard to find. But curious...if the cable has no numbers how did you come to the conclusion that it decodes as a fairmont cable? Maybe Jim's tag was removed but if it's the same cable I inquired about, it had a tag on it at the time.

How do you suppose a concours class will come about? and painting a cable is no different that installing a correct or reproduced Data plate to an incorrect carb on a Boss 429...sure the tag makes it look right but it really isn't....no difference for the purist. I am not a purist personally but I have done work for a few and know how they think....like it or not thats the way it is. I see a LOT of reference from people hoping the SSP's are like Boss 302's...well then, this is where it's headed if that is to be the case...again, like it or not.

I've stated from the start that there was nothing wrong with making something work...I do it often myself. However my point is nothing more than a warning of what I've seen in the past where as years pass by something that was a close match was passed on through the chain as being original by someone down the road. All roads are paved with good intentions but along the way someone is bound to change the story. If you were to document this on your site as an informational point then that would go a VERY long way to avoid this problem....but it does happen and to think it can't or won't is only just looking the other way because it doesn't affect you now. If these cars hit the big time down the road for collectors, this WILL become the sort of issue you may see as people try to restore or cobble together cars in search of the big bucks...money is after all, the root of all evil.
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  #17  
Old 03-30-2007, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by svopaul View Post
Mike, you are missing my point entirely....I didn't say that you or anyone else claimed it is NOS.....just that unless it is documented then as time passes people forget what original was other than a few that keep up with it and the next thing you know 5 years from now there is an arguement between two people...one claiming that grey is correct and the other claiming black is correct. And it is not this site or anyone here that is doing that sort of thing but it is this site's and everyones duty to keep information clear so that the facts aren't lost in the future.

Fairmont and Mustang share a lot and have a lot of similarities but there is also a CV cable that "works" but they are also hard to find. But curious...if the cable has no numbers how did you come to the conclusion that it decodes as a fairmont cable? Maybe Jim's tag was removed but if it's the same cable I inquired about, it had a tag on it at the time.

How do you suppose a concours class will come about? and painting a cable is no different that installing a correct or reproduced Data plate to an incorrect carb on a Boss 429...sure the tag makes it look right but it really isn't....no difference for the purist. I am not a purist personally but I have done work for a few and know how they think....like it or not thats the way it is. I see a LOT of reference from people hoping the SSP's are like Boss 302's...well then, this is where it's headed if that is to be the case...again, like it or not.

I've stated from the start that there was nothing wrong with making something work...I do it often myself. However my point is nothing more than a warning of what I've seen in the past where as years pass by something that was a close match was passed on through the chain as being original by someone down the road. All roads are paved with good intentions but along the way someone is bound to change the story. If you were to document this on your site as an informational point then that would go a VERY long way to avoid this problem....but it does happen and to think it can't or won't is only just looking the other way because it doesn't affect you now. If these cars hit the big time down the road for collectors, this WILL become the sort of issue you may see as people try to restore or cobble together cars in search of the big bucks...money is after all, the root of all evil.

Paul,

It is already documented on this site....check out the "Technical" section on Speedometers/Vascar cables. That's pretty clear documentation.

I understand your point about the "clouding" of OE equipment, but I'll offer that the selling of items on Ebay currently taking place that were NEVER on these cars deserves the attention you are giving this issue.

We are not going to see a "Concours" class anytime soon, and your point about the painting of the cable being doesn't make much sense. Do people replace body panels with used panels in the exact same colors? If I found a good, used fender for my '83 that was white, when the car is black, does that mean I can't use it?

The cable I found does have an engineering number on it, hence the Fairmont decode. NONE of the original VASCAR cables have any numbers on them, including the NOS one that just sold. Many, many other applications exist that used these two-piece cables and there are more out there.
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  #18  
Old 03-30-2007, 06:27 PM
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I will chime in for just a short time. The NOS vascar cable I bought from PPI on ebay last week has a piece of yellow tape on it with the following written in black ink "E8ZV9A20-BA". The tag does not appear to be a ford tag. I have NO issue with it not having some sort of Ford Motor Company original tag. I have several other mustang vascar cables and it matches up perfectly. It is the same length, diameter, construction etc. I plan on taking it to a speedo shop and seeing if I can get some more made?????? If I do and I sell them I will not advertise them as NOS, just quality replacement parts.

As hard as it is to find some of these parts sometimes you have to be resourceful....or just pony up when you can find the originals somewhere.

When I talked to JIm D about vascar cables the other day we discussed the possibility of using a crown vic cable. he states length would probably be an issue, and possibly the transmission attachment point being different. I don't know as I have never compared them.
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  #19  
Old 03-30-2007, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ImEvil1 View Post
Paul,

It is already documented on this site....check out the "Technical" section on Speedometers/Vascar cables. That's pretty clear documentation.

I understand your point about the "clouding" of OE equipment, but I'll offer that the selling of items on Ebay currently taking place that were NEVER on these cars deserves the attention you are giving this issue.

We are not going to see a "Concours" class anytime soon, and your point about the painting of the cable being doesn't make much sense. Do people replace body panels with used panels in the exact same colors? If I found a good, used fender for my '83 that was white, when the car is black, does that mean I can't use it?

The cable I found does have an engineering number on it, hence the Fairmont decode. NONE of the original VASCAR cables have any numbers on them, including the NOS one that just sold. Many, many other applications exist that used these two-piece cables and there are more out there.
That's good but what I meant was to add into that documentation about the useable substitutions....which you may have planned already this topic is still very young.

Hey, when it comes to ebay I often email sellers to correct them on their listing...most of the time it goes ignored though. I think they do it on purpose just to attempt to get more money for it.

A body panel is different than a cable....a cable is not supposed to be a painted part. That would be like spray painting plug wires so they looked correct. Maybe my outlook is different because I restore cars for a living but some things when you paint them lose something in their appearance. Average onlookers may never notice but those who know....know most of the time unless they are not paying attention.

OK, I thought you were referring to the ebay cable being the Fairmont cable...thanks for clearing that up.
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  #20  
Old 03-30-2007, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by NoDrama43 View Post
I will chime in for just a short time. The NOS vascar cable I bought from PPI on ebay last week has a piece of yellow tape on it with the following written in black ink "E8ZV9A20-BA". The tag does not appear to be a ford tag. I have NO issue with it not having some sort of Ford Motor Company original tag. I have several other mustang vascar cables and it matches up perfectly. It is the same length, diameter, construction etc. I plan on taking it to a speedo shop and seeing if I can get some more made?????? If I do and I sell them I will not advertise them as NOS, just quality replacement parts.

As hard as it is to find some of these parts sometimes you have to be resourceful....or just pony up when you can find the originals somewhere.

When I talked to JIm D about vascar cables the other day we discussed the possibility of using a crown vic cable. he states length would probably be an issue, and possibly the transmission attachment point being different. I don't know as I have never compared them.

I've gotten many parts from Ford with those yellow tape labels...usually speedo or parking brake cables...things of that nature.

Yes, you most certainly have to be resourceful. I've reproduced quite a few parts over the years...some easy, some not. A lot of research often goes into stuff like this too so that you can find something that works.

Cable length is an issue and the side of the transmission that the cable attaches can be an issue as well. If your application is on the passenger side of the transmission and the one you are attempting to use was on the Driver then it will be too short....the opposite...too long. For function you can sometimes hide the excess or it is just not seen unless under the car. Again though as discussed if you need functionality then Function takes priority over form.....if you can get both then all the better.
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